Character Tweaks [revamped first post!]

[Chaoxys]

But doesn't she already use the morph ball when she side steps?

[AuraPigOnStilts]

Does she? I haven't noticed. Either way, her side step could be just a walk. It seems to make more sense

[Runouw]

A completely random and possibly unnecessary idea, but...
After watching a few of these videos:
Do you think at all, that when you collect a smash ball or something, that you should be able to do combos like these? It's pretty easy to program in because all you really do is dramatically reduce lag time [and make running and jumping faster possibly...]. Then using a final smash would be that much more replayable (as in not the same thing every time that gets old after the 3rd time). It would be awesome to try doing different combos every time with your own unique style.

I have no intention of leaving out the final smash attacks, but I would like these combos to be possible (because it would be really fun).

[Negative-Zer0]

Make it operate like the A-groove in cvs2. In which you can't cancel an attack until you hit someone. And reduce knockback and damage during this mode so it is balanced. Maybe it can be activated by holding A and B together triggering the "A-groove" or "Genei Jin"

[Koopaul]

Smash Bros. isn't about cobos like that. In fact I always hated that in fighting games, "He who can bash a certain button combination better wins" that doesn't sound like fun to me. Smash Bros. always kept you on your toes the game threw so many curveballs, its about survival and thinking on your toes because you don't know what's in store.

Carefully place mines, survive a wall of fire, hit then run, gun them down, hide some place safe while the Chimera's out. This is what the game is all about, not button combinations, but being prepared for anything and finding a way to knock you're opponent off the arena by any means necessary.

[Negative-Zer0]

(12-05-2010 04:13 AM)Koopaul Wrote:  Smash Bros. isn't about cobos like that. In fact I always hated that in fighting games, "He who can bash a certain button combination better wins" that doesn't sound like fun to me. Smash Bros. always kept you on your toes the game threw so many curveballs, its about survival and thinking on your toes because you don't know what's in store.

Carefully place mines, survive a wall of fire, hit then run, gun them down, hide some place safe while the Chimera's out. This is what the game is all about, not button combinations, but being prepared for anything and finding a way to knock you're opponent off the arena by any means necessary.

I don't wanna get into an argument with you but fighting games have NEVER been about who can do the better combo, except mvc2. Infact, MvC2 has you thinking on your toes more so than any fighting game ever made with the notorious "one mistake can cost you an entire game"

Thinking on your toes is what fighting games is about. Hell, a buncha street fighter players can sit here and explain to you why street fighter does this more so than smash brothers. ( One being that making a mistake in street fighter may cost you dearly where as smash brothers doesn't punish you for mistakes much)

This is an interesting concept and can work in smash brothers if done right. It just needs to look smooth and not be broken, which can easily be achieved.

[tsr moderation staff]

as fun and interesting as that might be, i have to agree with koopaul in that it would be against the spirit of the entire franchise. its always been about simplicity and accessibility

[Negative-Zer0]

(12-05-2010 07:49 AM)[fish in space] Wrote:  as fun and interesting as that might be, i have to agree with koopaul in that it would be against the spirit of the entire franchise. its always been about simplicity and accessibility

Can we at least see the idea in action before making the final verdict? It actually sounds interesting.

-low knock back
-hits only cancel when you attack someone
-low damage
-activation lasts a short period of time ( 6 or 7 seconds )
-actually takes some skill and practice to link together ( not too much however)

*requirements*
-get a smash ball
-press A and B at the same time for activation
-can be activated during an attack
-can't be activated during final smash
-after images to indicate activation.

This would seriously separate us from the pack. A totally unique idea that works and fits into the game ( if done correctly ) could attract more people to this game. The same can be said about how final smashes ruin the game and is out of the spirit, but it didn't.

[Tarvonas]

That sounds kick-ass to me. You can argue all you want about how "that doesn't suit smash brothers" but the fact is, you don't even have to activate the thing. If you don't like it, don't do it. Turn smash balls off if you must, or if you like using the final smash attack, then just don't press A and B at the same time.

Everyone has their different opinions on this, and that's fair enough. I just can't see how implementing this feature as an optional thing would damage the game in any way. Remember to keep in mind that some people get bored of the same thing over and over, and a unique little twist like this might be just the thing to avoid this factor.

It's a lot like Dragon Ball: Raging Blast 2. When you charge your energy to the max, you have a choice of entering raging soul mode (where your power and speed is increased), or using your finishing move.

[AuraPigOnStilts]

How about that could be an option, to be able to do combos like that. I mean, you go into settings or whatever and choose 'smash ball combo' on or off

[Kosheh]

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Half of you are talking like like you're going to be playing a Flash game seriously. >_>

I can't wait to see your CUSTOM STICKS you've built as you nervously anticipate the release of this game! Are you using Sanwa or Seimitsu buttons? It really matters, you know, Smash being a game of REFLEXES and TIMING.

(12-05-2010 07:49 AM)[fish in space] Wrote:  as fun and interesting as that might be, i have to agree with koopaul in that it would be against the spirit of the entire franchise. its always been about simplicity and accessibility

this this this this THIS

Smash Bros. is an entry-level fighting game experience. As much as you can say "Yeah, Smash is in its own genre, the brawler genre" it doesn't quite have the following of games like, say, Street Fighter. Like - I totally understand where most of you are coming from: "Hey let's put the V-ISM from SFA3 in Smash sounds dope dur hur" - but what you're really not thinking about is that Smash-Variables (?) being manually controlled defeats the purpose of the game. You're taking something that's "guaranteed kill against beginners, dodgable technique by advancced players" and making it into "technique that can only be used by god-tier players". Chances are none of you will even be able to pull those techniques off manually - and I'm not saying that because I suck at the game or anything
There's way too many variables with those combos to even make them work half the time - most of those attacks are chained together don't knock the player back until higher percentages and most of them require some sort of evasion technique to increase the typical movement speed of the character.
Also keep in mind, PROS, that another experienced player isn't going to simply stand there while you try to begin the perfect start to your "awesome combo" - that and most of those hack combos shown were mostly dependent on player-opponent placement on the map. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if most of those combos were tool-assisted (input macros)

As cool as the idea is - no, don't do it. The only way I could see this working would letting the combos be automated every time with an alternate button press - as someone suggested, maybe A+B; the entire animation plays with showy-ass combo with a nice zoom-in finish and the "CHAAAANG~!" critical hit noise plays as the camera quickly zooms back out showing your obliterated opponent's unfortunate KO. There's still the argued "variation" - every character has two Final Smashes. One just looks cooler.

[tsr moderation staff]

incidentally, since controls are coming up anyway, it would be nice if we could find another button for final smashes. i think we've all been there when the one time we have a smash ball is the one time in the entire match we really need our neutral b

[Runouw]

The way I see it, you shouldn't need to have too much skill to pull of these combo's. I can easily make the game's engine bend your characters position slightly to make attacks auto-aim a little bit. So noobs can just button mash next to someone and feel like they are doing some damage [of course pros would be able to do this more effectively]. But the point is that the "Final Smash" is different EVERY TIME. Trust me, you would like to mess around with these fast combos just for fun, and if you don't like them, then you can turn smash balls off or don't press A+B.

Also, what do you think of making it last 15-20 seconds, but if you get a KO, it ends faster/immediately. (Think of it as an 'anger' form, but it goes away after you beat your opponent??)

And before you say it makes pros too overpowered, a final smash already pretty much guarantees a KO doesn't it? (If not, then it meant to severely injure multiple opponents). And besides, if a new player isn't good at comboing, then they can just use the ordinary final smash instead then.

(It would also be pretty fun to make a special mode where you can stay in this mode the entire time to practice combos, or make a special mode where you can try to beat home-run and target tests with it)

[Nindo]

Then you should probably call the game by some other moniker not including Super Smash Bros.
because that is what you are wanting to make,

how about name it:
Super Nintendo Fighter
or
Nintendo vs. characters from other franchises?

because those would fit better.

[Runouw]

Come on, it's just the final smash. It's not at all game breaking or worthy of changing the name.
All I am trying to do is come up with a less tedious and more fun way of doing the final smash.