Next Xbox - No Disc Drive?

[.Luke]

(03-11-2012 02:58 PM)puggsoy Wrote:  I also think that DRM is nonexistent. Not to mention achievements, which add replayability.

Then you're going to be in for a surprise, DRM ahoy! =P Steam does provide its own DRM for most games on their store, however, and it does almost nothing to get in your way. (Probably because they assume their customers aren't the enemy, unlike other publishers. Screw off Ubisoft!)

Although most Steam games don't have much copy-protection to weigh you down, some developers who release their software on the service will unfortunately include their own DRM at times. Oh how badly I wanted to score Arkham Asylum on Steam, but somebody thought it would be funny to package it with SecuRom! D: (Which is the most drastic POS idea for a DRM I've ever read about, and it's the only thing more invasive than contracting a rootkit.)

[puggsoy]

Really? Well, that's why I said "I think".

But I don't think games from Valve itself has DRM. I've got GMod, and as far as I know I could go into any internet cafe and clog up all the hard drives by downloading it on each PC.

By the way, I Googled "gmod drm" and found this. Garry Newman is awesome.

[Vic]

(03-12-2012 08:55 PM)puggsoy Wrote:  But I don't think games from Valve itself has DRM. I've got GMod, and as far as I know I could go into any internet cafe and clog up all the hard drives by downloading it on each PC.

Valve Games got DRM, it's called Steam.

Think about it, you may download GMod on god knows how many PCs, but you won't be able to launch it without a valid Steam account which has said game purchased.

[Raz]

(03-12-2012 08:55 PM)puggsoy Wrote:  Really? Well, that's why I said "I think".

But I don't think games from Valve itself has DRM. I've got GMod, and as far as I know I could go into any internet cafe and clog up all the hard drives by downloading it on each PC.

By the way, I Googled "gmod drm" and found this. Garry Newman is awesome.

Games from valve which use steam generally require an internet connection to be playable, there's been many a time when my internet has gone down and I've been unable to play my titles offline (even although there technically is the option to do this on steam....). It's not intrusive at all but it is there!

As for the next gen xbox having no Disc Drive, surely not? That's only going to hurt sales. The level of internet connected homes isn't anywhere near high enough for that to be a viable business model. I know when I lived in the Student Halls of Residence everybody had a games console but none of them could get online because of really, really strict JANET user policy which locked down everything that it didn't consider "Relevant to student studies" (luckily I managed to SSH tunnel and get access!)

[puggsoy]

Yeah, that's the only thing, they do require an internet connection. And you can't even keep offline mode enabled on a shared PC.

(03-12-2012 09:36 PM)Vic Wrote:  

(03-12-2012 08:55 PM)puggsoy Wrote:  But I don't think games from Valve itself has DRM. I've got GMod, and as far as I know I could go into any internet cafe and clog up all the hard drives by downloading it on each PC.

Valve Games got DRM, it's called Steam.

Think about it, you may download GMod on god knows how many PCs, but you won't be able to launch it without a valid Steam account which has said game purchased.

True.
But by DRM I actually meant "you're not allowed to install this more than 5 times" kind of thing. I know that the meaning of DRM is way more general than that, but that's what I meant.

[Dazz]

Something that annoys me with Steam is the "You must be online" aspect - while they give an option to be in offline mode, you can't do anything at all except delete games... Which would mean if I had a laptop and wanted to play games on, say, a train, I wouldn't be able to.

I trust Microsoft won't make any stupid decisions - and besides, most games stores will be closing in the UK in the next few months anyway, so it doesn't really matter if it kills our retail industry.

[.Luke]

There's still the WiiU and PS4, so I'm sure the retail industry for games won't completely dry up because one platform out of maybe five or more others thinks it can ditch a physical medium.

Dazz Wrote:Something that annoys me with Steam is the "You must be online" aspect - while they give an option to be in offline mode, you can't do anything at all except delete games... Which would mean if I had a laptop and wanted to play games on, say, a train, I wouldn't be able to.

I used to think you had to be online to run Steam games too, but that's just if you want to launch them from the Steam client. (Which is kind of illogical.) All of the game's assets and data are locally on your harddrive, so all you really have to do is dig through your Steam installation folder for the game's executable binary and run it from there.

At least that's what it let me do for all the demos I downloaded. If a particular title uses third-party DRM, there's a good chance it'd cripple itself without an internet connection anyway. D:

puggsoy Wrote:True.
But by DRM I actually meant "you're not allowed to install this more than 5 times" kind of thing. I know that the meaning of DRM is way more general than that, but that's what I meant.

AFAIK, only SecuRom does that, and that's only to ensure the software is installed on five machines or less at once, not just five installs.

[Dazz]

The WiiU and PS4, sure - but the UK's leading system to my knowledge (besides the Wii) is the 360. Not only that, but our retail stores are already closing, because of their lack of contracts with games companies such as Nintendo, EA, and a few other big publishers.

So yeah, fucked.

[puggsoy]

(03-12-2012 11:20 PM).Luke Wrote:  

Dazz Wrote:Something that annoys me with Steam is the "You must be online" aspect - while they give an option to be in offline mode, you can't do anything at all except delete games... Which would mean if I had a laptop and wanted to play games on, say, a train, I wouldn't be able to.

I used to think you had to be online to run Steam games too, but that's just if you want to launch them from the Steam client. (Which is kind of illogical.) All of the game's assets and data are locally on your harddrive, so all you really have to do is dig through your Steam installation folder for the game's executable binary and run it from there.

At least that's what it let me do for all the demos I downloaded. If a particular title uses third-party DRM, there's a good chance it'd cripple itself without an internet connection anyway. D:

Not all games allow that, especially Valve games that you downloaded with Steam. No matter what, there's no way I can find to run GMod or TF2 without opening Steam. Maybe if you got TF2 from the Orange Box then it'd be possible, but not like this.
But other games like Audiosurf and World Of Goo do allow it, and maybe Spiral Knights too.

(03-12-2012 11:20 PM).Luke Wrote:  

puggsoy Wrote:True.
But by DRM I actually meant "you're not allowed to install this more than 5 times" kind of thing. I know that the meaning of DRM is way more general than that, but that's what I meant.

AFAIK, only SecuRom does that, and that's only to ensure the software is installed on five machines or less at once, not just five installs.

Actually, some games used to do that, you couldn't get back installs. But now most do have that feature. And I think there are some other names than SecuRom, but they're practically identical anyway.

[.Luke]

Well I guess it's the Orange Box for me if I want to buy Portal and still be able to play it offline. D: I can't believe Valve could be that asinine about copy-protection! That's just one more reason for me to invest in a PS3 instead of newer PC hardware.

(03-13-2012 09:30 AM)Dazz Wrote:  The WiiU and PS4, sure - but the UK's leading system to my knowledge (besides the Wii) is the 360. Not only that, but our retail stores are already closing, because of their lack of contracts with games companies such as Nintendo, EA, and a few other big publishers.

So yeah, fucked.

Forgot how much of a monopoly M$ has in the games industry, and the point you just brought up is going to suck for you guys in the UK. D: Even though I prefer ordering my games online, personally, it's quite convenient to just pick up a recent game in the preowned corner of a retail store, so I can't imagine having only Ebay and Amazon as an option.

[Raz]

(03-13-2012 08:37 PM).Luke Wrote:  Well I guess it's the Orange Box for me if I want to buy Portal and still be able to play it offline. D: I can't believe Valve could be that asinine about copy-protection! That's just one more reason for me to invest in a PS3 instead of newer PC hardware.

(03-13-2012 09:30 AM)Dazz Wrote:  The WiiU and PS4, sure - but the UK's leading system to my knowledge (besides the Wii) is the 360. Not only that, but our retail stores are already closing, because of their lack of contracts with games companies such as Nintendo, EA, and a few other big publishers.

So yeah, fucked.

Forgot how much of a monopoly M$ has in the games industry, and the point you just brought up is going to suck for you guys in the UK. D: Even though I prefer ordering my games online, personally, it's quite convenient to just pick up a recent game in the preowned corner of a retail store, so I can't imagine having only Ebay and Amazon as an option.

It may not be such a bad thing if the specialized game retailer that has been at the top of the pile for a long time closes down. We have two major store brands GAME and Gamestation, both are owned by the same company but operate pretty differently insomuch as, they both sell games, but gamestation seeems to take a better approach to trade-ins (by that I mean they offer you SLIGHTLY more when you trade a game).

The point is though, these two brands are owned by one company, and it's very easy for them to set prices which influence the price throughout the rest of the UK and every other store which sells games. There might come a time when supermarkets start stocking a wider range of video games and we can go and pick up copies while we go shopping at a fairer price since these stores bulk buy and could certainly use them as a loss leader.

What I really want to see though is places that supply tabletop gaming (like warhammer 40k, Game of Thrones war game, lord of the rings war game) selling video games in the future, it'll help expand the market of these stores, allowing them to move into bigger premises since most are in tiny little stores, and it'll hopefully raise the profile of tabletop gaming.

[.Luke]

Would Gamestation/GAME happen to offer more money on trades for members? At least that's what Gamestop does here in the states, (And those greedy bastards bought out all of my favorite used game stores too! Even worse, they don't have the equipment or policies to test their bricked coasters before they put them on the shelf.) and the clerks will barely offer you 50 cents, sometimes even less, for used games unless you have a membership card.

Even then, it's still in store credit, though. *insert rage face here* All the Gamestop exclusive DLC pre-order content is an even bigger "**** you other guys" than that.

To put it shortly, I know how it feels! And I find it funny how one monopoly (MS) might kill another in the UK. Maybe it will encourage the growth of newer, smaller VG store chains? The thought of tabletop game stores stocking up on video games is a great idea too, they really could use more sells from a broader variety of customers; all the tabletop stores I visit are usually empty! (And maybe we would see more people playing Civilization the old fashioned way in the process? xD)

[Raz]

(03-18-2012 08:30 PM).Luke Wrote:  Would Gamestation/GAME happen to offer more money on trades for members? At least that's what Gamestop does here in the states, (And those greedy bastards bought out all of my favorite used game stores too! Even worse, they don't have the equipment or policies to test their bricked coasters before they put them on the shelf.) and the clerks will barely offer you 50 cents, sometimes even less, for used games unless you have a membership card.

Even then, it's still in store credit, though. *insert rage face here* All the Gamestop exclusive DLC pre-order content is an even bigger "**** you other guys" than that.

To put it shortly, I know how it feels! And I find it funny how one monopoly (MS) might kill another in the UK. Maybe it will encourage the growth of newer, smaller VG store chains? The thought of tabletop game stores stocking up on video games is a great idea too, they really could use more sells from a broader variety of customers; all the tabletop stores I visit are usually empty! (And maybe we would see more people playing Civilization the old fashioned way in the process? xD)

Nope, we don't have a membership system like that. Any time you purchase a game you're asked to take a points card; the cards are pretty useless, you save points up and can use them for money off another game. You get 10 points for every £1 spent. 1000 points = £2.50, so you need to buy a tonne of games before you even get £2.50 off a game. Launch titles here are around £40. so you're looking at 30 games before you get that. You also seem to lose your points if you don't make a purchase in a while....

So basically, you get the same offer no matter if you use their loyalty program or not, and it's usually a terrible price you get while they sell the games for three or four times what you sold it for.

I really do hope some small retailers win out of this, I think we've let the idea of "superstores" go way too far. The one thing I liked about video game stores years ago is that all the staff were really interested in games, you could go in with no cash and just chat to the staff for ages. I believe the hiring policy is different now, I've heard that Gamestation do their recruitment through the Job Center in the UK rather than through individuals applying for a job.

It'd be sad to see all those people put out of a job, it really would, but I think that the business practices have put GAME where it is now. They choked out the independent market by being the biggest players in their market, and they're now being squeezed out by the supermarkets who are bigger bullies than they are.

[Dazz]

My friend works at Gamestation, and I believe he was kept on after he was a Christmas temp.

I guess that really, my concen is that we have no jobs, and now one of the major sectors of the entertainment industry is losing it's forefront store. Next we will lose HMV, which leaves the music and film stores without an industry leader.

[Kriven]

I honestly believe more people are going to have to turn toward independent creative entertainment fronts to keep the economy rolling. We simply aren't going to have the retail positions we have now in just a few years.