Model format conversion

[SierraLatkje]

I'm sorry to be posting another request, but this one is...um...sort of simple, maybe? See, I'm still trying to get the battle models from Final Fantasy VII in a form that I can use. The problem is that the models only use textures for the eyes; everything else is direct coloration of the polygons. According to a wiki I saw, there's supposed to be a file that dictates what color to make the polygons, but Noesis doesn't rip it, so most of the time when Noesis rips the model, it's blank of any coloration.

However, there are three formats that--when viewed in Noesis--show the color still remaining. Those formats are .rdm, .dae and .fbx. I've tried using Blender 2.49, Blender 2.6, Metasequoia LE, Maya 2010, and 3D Studio Max 2010 to open them, with mixed results. Blender and Metasequoia either crash or don't open the files, and Maya can open one with coloration, but can't export it again with the coloration, or at least, if it can, I can't find a way to get it to do it. I can't figure out 3DS enough to make it display if the colors are there or not, but I can't find any way to make it export them in a way I can use.

Anyway, getting to the actual request, I posted two models in those three formats to MediaFire at http://www.mediafire.com/?dqdhdt0y21s2vlj and so I'm requesting that someone who actually knows what they're doing convert them to something I can use. My ultimate goal is to put them into MMD, so I need something that either Blender 2.49 or Metasequoia can open successfully. So if someone could convert those two models with their colors in tact to one of the formats listed below, I'd really appreciate it. Especially if it the method required to convert them turns out to be something easy enough that I'd be able to replicate it with the other models.

The formats that I can open in those two programs are: .mqo, .suf, .dxf, .lwo, .3ds, .rok, .cob, .ac, .off, .x, .md2, .ms3d, .ply, .obj, .x3d. (Unfortunately, when Noesis exports to .ply and .obj they have the usual lack of color, so I can't use that directly...)

Thanks for any help you can offer!

[valforwing]

I have a tip for correcting the models when imported into MMD.
add individual textures that have the colors of a screen capture (we are talking about the feild models right?)

[SierraLatkje]

(02-04-2012 05:46 AM)valforwing Wrote:  I have a tip for correcting the models when imported into MMD.
add individual textures that have the colors of a screen capture (we are talking about the feild models right?)

No, they're the battle models, not the field models.

If no one can convert the models with their colors in tact, I might try that screen capture texture method. I don't think it would end up looking as good that way, though, so I'm still hoping someone will be able to find a method for converting the models.

[valforwing]

well it worked for the field models from Final Fantasy VII

[SierraLatkje]

The battle models are more complicated, though, so it would still be a *lot* of work. It's definitely on my back burner as a possibility, though.

[John2k4]

Well reading the OP cleared this up.


-----

The meshes (covering each polygon that makes up the model) seem to have their own textures...




------------

It's worth noting that FF VII has advanced export options in Noesis - have you tried any of them (Especially the batch one)?

Code:

FF7
-ff7weapon # - only export this weapon model (0-15) and not all.
-ff7weaponbone # - attach the weapon model(s) to this bone number.
-ff7weaponrot # # # - transform weapon(s) by given angles.
-ff7weapontrans # # # - transform weapon(s) by given offset.

-ff7batch - batches vertex color surfaces into one, using bone weights.

-ff7pot - resizes output tim->png textures to power of two.
-ff7notrim - do not eliminate overlapping triangles.
-ff7texnudge # - nudges textured surfaces by # units along normal.
-ff7boneremap # # - remaps bone index # to second #.

[SierraLatkje]

(02-07-2012 04:53 AM)John2k4 Wrote:  It's worth noting that FF VII has advanced export options in Noesis - have you tried any of them (Especially the batch one)?

I've tried the batch one frequently. Actually, I've tried most of them--haven't really bothered with the ones that attach weapons to bones and such, since those are unlikely to help--but maybe I should try it in conjunction with some of the others. Looking over my export attempts--I named the files after what advanced options I used so I could keep track of what did and didn't work--I didn't usually try combinations. I'll see if I can get anything to work....

[valforwing]

other then the monsters the charecter models looks akward when we use them with newer stuff,,,hrm,,oh can u find some of the vehicles or balamb?

[SierraLatkje]

Actually, this thread is about FFVII and how I can't get the rips to hold their colors, not FFVIII.

However, no, I can't get the vehicles for VIII. I was never able to find a program that would crack the ISO for VIII, but I did find someone who had made a model viewer for it, and included all the model files along with the viewer. Said files, unfortunately, were only the battle models.

Getting back to the original topic, I don't think any of the advanced options are going to help. I tried using -ff7batch and -ff7pot together, along with -skinar and -objmtl, but it still didn't work. More importantly, I looked into the model data thingy on Noesis--which I hadn't realized was there before (deep shame)--and saw that although it listed each mesh as having a texture, there were only two textures listed in the textures section at the bottom, so apparently the special files aren't enough of a texture for Noesis to rip them, but are enough of a texture that the model is useless without them. (If that makes any sense.) But a few formats, as I said at the start, apparently incorporate that data into their fomat, so hopefully somehow it's possible to transfer that information out of those formats. Even just turning that information into a normal texture file would be great, in fact, if that's any easier to do. (I'm pretty much clueless about this stuff, and stumbling around in the dark. Because I'm an idiot who always jumps into the deep end without being sure she knows how to swim first. It's just my usual bad luck that one of the things I really wanted to do--get a working MMD game rip of Vincent Valentine--turns out to be one of the most impossible things in game ripping. And just wait until I feel confident enough to try my hand at ripping Suikoden III (one of my other big goals). They'll probably hear me whimpering on the other side of the world...)

[John2k4]

Hey, don't hammer yourself over it. It's a tricky format, and requires more than one mind to solve.

I'll try to put some more time into researching this later tonight.

[SierraLatkje]

(02-10-2012 02:38 AM)John2k4 Wrote:  Hey, don't hammer yourself over it. It's a tricky format, and requires more than one mind to solve.

Coming from me, that was very mild; I can get pretty self-abusive sometimes. (Usually I keep it to myself, though...)

I'm just really annoyed with my own tendency to decide I want to do something without having any idea how to do it. Having to ask people for help has always been something I didn't like doing. The fact that I don't know what I'm doing enough to help anyone else out doesn't help, either.

I'm glad there's a place like this filled with friendly and helpful people like you, though.

[John2k4]

After spending an hour looking through possible coloring methods, I'm currently thinking that the meshes themselves that cover the polygons are colored.
---

Two hours later, here's my best thoughts on the matter (with a big thanks to Loosiv for lending me his brain) :

There are very low-res color textures on the model, and they are packed into the 3D files. They do not export when forced through Noesis.

Everything is tied into the one model file (Model, Skeleton, Animation, and mesh textures). This could be why other model formats do not contain the colors - they don't support pack-in textures like those three do.


Still not sure why Noesis renders fine, when others don't.

Will post back if anything else gets figured out.


--

Confirming that there are images/textures of some sort stored inside the DAE file. And strangely enough, they use Phong shaders. o.o
The embedded image data is almost comparable to Valve VTF image/texture files.

Code:

<effect id="Effect3" name="ffdclr2">
      <profile_COMMON>
        <newparam sid="Image3-surface">
          <surface type="2D">
            <init_from>Image3</init_from>
            <format>A8R8G8B8</format>
          </surface>
        </newparam>
        <newparam sid="Image3-sampler">
          <sampler2D>
            <source>Image3-surface</source>
            <wrap_s>WRAP</wrap_s>
            <wrap_t>WRAP</wrap_t>
            <minfilter>NONE</minfilter>
            <magfilter>NONE</magfilter>
            <mipfilter>NONE</mipfilter>
          </sampler2D>
        </newparam>
        <technique sid="common">
          <phong>
            <emission>
              <color>0 0 0 1</color>
            </emission>
            <ambient>
              <color>0 0 0 1</color>
            </ambient>
            <diffuse>
              <texture texture="Image3-sampler" texcoord=""/>
            </diffuse>
            <specular>
              <color>1 1 1 1</color>
            </specular>
            <shininess>
              <float>0</float>
            </shininess>
            <transparent opaque="A_ONE">
              <color>0 0 0 1</color>
            </transparent>
            <transparency>
              <float>1</float>
            </transparency>
            <index_of_refraction>
              <float>1.55</float>
            </index_of_refraction>
          </phong>
          <extra>
            <technique profile="FCOLLADA">
              <spec_level>
                <float>0</float>
              </spec_level>
            </technique>
          </extra>
        </technique>
      </profile_COMMON>
      <extra>
        <technique profile="FCOLLADA">
          <user_properties>ffdclr2</user_properties>
        </technique>
      </extra>
    </effect>

[valforwing]

whats wrong with that?? I ask people for help ALLL THE TIME!

[John2k4]

Here's some interesting info...

Blender seems like it recognizes the images embedded in the DAE file for these models. It encounters an error when trying to parse them, however.

Spoiler (Click to View)

All of that is output right when I try to import the model.

[valforwing]

thats when u just keep trying